tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post5697479845944158523..comments2023-05-15T07:47:29.162-04:00Comments on Delusions of Grandeur: A Serious Post For OnceAbbyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11024012133951388516noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-24304673160775537532009-03-28T14:50:00.000-04:002009-03-28T14:50:00.000-04:00Meh, I disagree. If someone is dangerous enough t...Meh, I disagree. If someone is dangerous enough to society that nothing short of killing him will keep us safe, I don't see the Lord condemning us for that. Killing him for no cause (Salem witch trials anyone?), absolutely. But someone like Manson or Bundy? I don't see that being a problem. My problem is with folks who think every idiot who commits a major crime should die. I think they'd do just as well their whole lives in prison. I fully support some folks who fall into the sex crimes category spending their entire lives in prison because there is almost no hope of recovery for them. Killing them? No. I think we still need the ability to kill the worst of the worst, but we have to somehow impose stricter rules about who has it coming and who doesn't.<BR/><BR/>And glad to see you back, Kristi, it's been a while.Abbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11024012133951388516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-36294185489754655302009-03-21T11:29:00.000-04:002009-03-21T11:29:00.000-04:00It's not like he was forced to take LSD. That adde...It's not like he was forced to take LSD. That added time is for being stupid. DP for that, I agree, no. I guess I just don't trust the legal system to make righteous judgements. And righteous or not I don't think life is something that is ours to give or take as we please.Kleanteethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12390125053421635742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-38979783811314112612009-03-20T17:11:00.000-04:002009-03-20T17:11:00.000-04:00If a human is put under the influence enough and p...If a human is put under the influence enough and put in the right situation, that person would be capable of just as much as the next person. I'm not saying the kid didn't hate the mother and didn't wish her dead. He may have even planned her death in his sober moments. My point was that it was never PROVEN that he did so. I also never said the kid shouldn't have been locked away for life for what he did while he was under the influence, but I sure as heck don't believe he should have been put on death row for committing a crime that was never sufficiently proven he was as capable and as willing to commit as when he was not under the influence of drugs. You could give me enough LSD until I wound up torching the neighborhood, stealing a grayhound bus, and then crashing it into the White House lawn, but that doesn't mean I'd ever dream of doing such a thing with my wits and reason in tact. Drugs deprive you of your conscience, personal and societal norms of behavior, any sense of reason, and all self control. Surely you aren't suggesting he's just as guilty as a fellow who did the exact same thing but without the hinderment of illegal substances clouding his judgement, are you?<BR/><BR/>I don't really care if you believe the death penalty is wrong. It's not what I believe. My post was about me and the folks who also believe that the death penalty has a place in our justice system. You'll notice I hardly mentioned those who don't believe in it at all, only those who do and the supposed arguments in favor of it. That's because I don't care about the other side; I've done enough research and pondering about the subject to determine for myself that there is a need for it, albeit a far more restricted one than our courts seem to implement at this time. <BR/><BR/>As for shoulds and probablies, did I not say at the very beginning that I don't believe in black and white issues? You're right: for people who only see black and white there is no room for probably and maybe and likely. In reality though, that's exactly what life is: probablies and possiblies. I can't for sure say that Ted Bundy would have killed again and could never have given up his maniacal ways, but I'm <I>pretty sure he would not have</I>. I'm also pretty sure most people on earth thought the same thing and that's why he died. Case closed.<BR/><BR/>God didn't say not to judge one another. He said not to judge one another unrighteously. This, while His knowing that men are imperfect and don't always judge perfectly as a result. If you are on a jury and believe that putting a wicked man to death is the best option for the society at large, I'd call that as righteous a judgement as a common man can give with his limited knowledge in tact.Abbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11024012133951388516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-37209391558402224702009-03-20T12:14:00.000-04:002009-03-20T12:14:00.000-04:00So you're saying they need to have a drugicular ho...So you're saying they need to have a drugicular homicide. My experience with people on drugs and alcohol is that yes they do things they normally wouldn't do, but it usually brings out inner thoughts they've already had and impules they usually control. He might have had murderous thoughts sober, but who admits that. <BR/>Your death penalty reasoning is full of shoulds and probablys and most likelys. That won't fly because you cannot allow something to happen based on a probability and like whats her name said, if God was doing the executing, he has the knowledge to determine if that person will follow the odds or by some chance beat them. We don't and we don't have the judgment privledge to be "God" to anybody. I disagree completely with the DP. Doesn't mean I feel bad for somebody who gets killed after being so heinous. Death is an easy option. If had the option of dying or lifing, I would die in a heartbeat.Kleanteethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12390125053421635742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-71329623068314174012009-03-18T23:58:00.000-04:002009-03-18T23:58:00.000-04:00I bet you would enjoy jury duty, Abby. I have bee...I bet you would enjoy jury duty, Abby. I have been summoned at least 3 times and served on a jury once. It was an interesting, somewhat traumatic, experience that I am grateful to have had. I'll have to tell you about it sometime.Bonnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10693523650451743765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-27325200595491130772009-03-18T09:55:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:55:00.000-04:00I finally have a moment to respond! Hooray! Jody...I finally have a moment to respond! Hooray! <BR/><BR/>Jody, I actually was on jury duty once. Rather, I was in the chair and was eliminated and replaced without anyone even asking me any questions. Dang it.<BR/><BR/>Greta, I'm not a lawyer because I wanted a shot at heaven.<BR/><BR/>I love that show, too, Bonny. We were shocked when it ended. Yeah, the fact that there are innocent men on death row gets to me, too. I also think some states are a little too free with sentencing men to death. I think it should be used far more sparingly than it is now. On the other hand, I still believe it needs to exist. For one famous example, Charles Manson should have died. Instead, he was kept alive and managed to direct his cult from behind bars; the only way to keep him from committing further horrible crimes would have been to execute him, and yet they didn't have the death penalty in the state at that time. He is only one reason why I believe it should be an option, even if only a very rare one.<BR/><BR/>I apologize for making you think on a weekend, Diana. :) Personally, I only believe it's the first step in repentance if that person goes to the death chamber willingly after admitting he did it to begin with. These guys who are guilty as sin but proclaim their innocence and go through years of appeals to get out of being punished for what they did doesn't sound like they're all that sorry, you know? <BR/><BR/>And now to Lisa. I absolutely get what you're saying about intent. However, I wasn't suggesting otherwise that a drunk driver had no intention of killing anyone while the drug addict actively picked up a knife and stabbed the woman. Two different situations, certainly. I think that's why we give (in my opinion) reduced sentences to drunk drivers who have killed on the road: what they did was cause an accident, but it was still an <I>accident</I>. The kid picking up a knife was very intentional. HOWEVER, what I was comparing were their mutual states of mind at the time the crimes were committed. Neither the drunk driver nor the drug addict can be fully held accountable for their actions, even though those actions were very different, because neither were in a reasonable state of mind. Neither were operating on full capacity as it were. As I said, it was never proven, only surmised, that the LSD kid ever even seriously contemplated murdering the woman when he was sober, let alone the fact that he didn't commit the murder when he was sober on top of that. He was not in his right mind when he planned it or when he carried it out. He was in a severly altered state of mind to the point where we can't prove that he would ever do the same if he were not on drugs. He had never committed murder, or even talked about it, in the past; there was no history of murderous intent in his life. Only the LSD changed his reasoning ability to the point where he thought it was a viable option for him. Without the drug, we would have to assume, given the evidence, that he would not have committed the crime. So in that sense, he is like the drunk driver in that his ability to reason and plan were severely impared and they both wound up doing things they might not have in any other given situation. For that reason alone he should not have been sentenced to death.Abbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11024012133951388516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-16528900070723322352009-03-16T16:27:00.000-04:002009-03-16T16:27:00.000-04:00Gotta love Sheriff Joe. He's a bit notorious arou...Gotta love Sheriff Joe. He's a bit notorious around here but you notice we keep reelecting him over and over. And I just learned recently that if you are only a work-release prisoner you miss out on the pink boxers. Bummer for Charles Barkley.Heidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00723848047273358492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-12855259786863606422009-03-15T23:04:00.000-04:002009-03-15T23:04:00.000-04:00The only prison I condone is the one run by Sherif...The only prison I condone is the one run by Sheriff Joe.<BR/>Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) is doing it RIGHT!! He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them. He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies. He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects. Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.<BR/>He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again but only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel. When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.<BR/>He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value. When the inmates complained, he told them.....this is a good one......"This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."<BR/>He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails. When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place. You have to love this guy!!<BR/>More on the AZ Sheriff:<BR/>With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports:<BR/>About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to<BR/>their government-issued pink boxer shorts. On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks. "It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."<BR/>Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is<BR/>not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and<BR/>they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes... so shut your damned mouths."R Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01418481211074340777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-10330380632931294232009-03-15T21:34:00.000-04:002009-03-15T21:34:00.000-04:00hum? You brought up some very good points. You ha...hum? You brought up some very good points. You have me agreeing that the young man/murderer on LSD may be capable of rehabilitation. But thing I totally disagree with is you comparing his murder of someone he knows and dislikes to that of a drunk driver's accidental murder. Did I read that wrong? Both were abusing substances but one person chose to kill and the other only chose to drive a car.it's just lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03278961684610027843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-60611780290898977852009-03-14T12:35:00.000-04:002009-03-14T12:35:00.000-04:00Interesting post for sure. Maybe it's not so much...Interesting post for sure. Maybe it's not so much eye for an eye, but I think (I said THINK) it can be the first step in repentance if you have taken someone else's life. I am convinced I could kill someone if they were trying or did hurt my children, and while I am not sure I would get the death penalty, (for all the reasons you stated) I wonder if I would be damned eternally? Surely I know better, but would the Lord take the reasoning into account? <BR/><BR/>I believe the death penalty should be used, perhaps only in extreme situations but nonetheless used. But for sure it isn't a perfect system, and it surely isn't a black and white thing. <BR/><BR/>Geez, thanks for making me think on a Saturday morning!Justin and Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05158042218054402230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-7444805532742581522009-03-13T20:16:00.000-04:002009-03-13T20:16:00.000-04:00I'm pretty much in the same mindset as you. Mostl...I'm pretty much in the same mindset as you. Mostly I don't believe we should execute people except in the most unusual circumstances, but generally, I feel that way because I think we are such easily blinded juries that it's hard to us to really get it right. (Think of all those death row guys who got pardons when DNA evidence exonerated them.) <BR/><BR/>However, as a general principle I'm not nearly so opposed to capital punishment. Not because I feel it makes anything better, but rather if you are a believer in scripture, it is clear that God not only sanctions capital punishment, in certain situations He may command it. It's just that whoever is making that judgment needs to be very in tune with God's commands, and clearly that is not the case in our justice system! (Not that I'm knocking it. It's better than anything else out there.)<BR/><BR/>I definitely agree that fear is the prime factor in why we allow the death penalty. That's why I wish repeat child molesters would get the death penalty even if they haven't killed anyone. People like that just are too risky to leave alive because of the probable harm that could ensue to innocent lives. But then we run into the same problem-- did we convict them fairly? Is it better to let them just rot in prison? (Personally, given what prison can be like for child molesters, if it were me, I'd prefer the death penalty.)Heidihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00723848047273358492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-8613337303734519482009-03-13T20:09:00.000-04:002009-03-13T20:09:00.000-04:00Ryan and I are loving Boston Legal right now. We ...Ryan and I are loving Boston Legal right now. We just started watching it and are on season 2. Your post reminded me of it.<BR/><BR/>As for my thoughts on the death penalty, I used to be all for it. Then I took a Constitutional Law class in high school and was discussing it with a classmate. Somehow we started talking about the people who are wrongfully sentenced to death row. You're right, our jury system isn't perfect. So it made me wonder, if even one innocent person is wrongfully sentenced to death row and executed, do the hundreds of guilty people executed somehow excuse that--make it worth the cost? What if it were my husband/son/brother/sister--whatever the case is--who was innocent and sentenced to death? That thought alone, that our legal system can, only because it's imperfect, allow the potential killing of an innocent person while the real criminal stays free, made me change my mind on the death penalty. I don't think we should use it, ever.<BR/><BR/>I'm so sorry to hear about Jim's family member. That must have been a scary few days. I can't even imagine what her parents were going through.Bonnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10693523650451743765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-10813405372315340792009-03-13T18:06:00.000-04:002009-03-13T18:06:00.000-04:00wow. very well said. i don't think i could ever ...wow. very well said. i don't think i could ever be that eloquent. why aren't you a lawyer again?gretahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14842802120947013699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-397389843609525219.post-24689967982895742002009-03-13T15:54:00.000-04:002009-03-13T15:54:00.000-04:00I can't wait for you to get your notice for jury d...I can't wait for you to get your notice for jury duty. And I really wish I could be a fly on that wall when you argue your points with that jury.... That would be better than any crime show.Jodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361841625757857721noreply@blogger.com